OK so lets really mix it up. This is the way it was done back in the early 70's. Building and building until the most famous G5 note that few male singers can produce.
I had that album and played it TO DEATH!!! I don't know that I'd call Andrew Lloyd Webber music from a score of a play a "rock ballad' but again, this is about opinions. And a great song with a great performance. 3 good choices so far. I'd love to have 10% of the money Webber made from just one of his scores. Cats, Evita, Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, and Phantom of the Opera... c'mon now! I was SO glad to see that play. I think I saw the "C" touring group, but the music was the music.
EDIT to add: I just looked up Ted Neeley and saw that in the time he played the lead in that play he performed that show 1700 times! That means he sang at THAT level 1700 times over about 8 years. Truly outstanding singer. Now I have to find that CD and listen to it again. I have it one one of the 9 binders of CDs I have here. Each holds 50,so... I'll find it in 2 hours or so. LOL
Last edited by eddie1261; 11/10/2308:16 AM.
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BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
All really good choices there! I was tempted to go with "The Spirit Carries On" because I am a large, huge, extreme Dream Theater guy, but Benny was born in Cleveland and was a Vietnam Veteran, so he got the nod. AND Into The Night is an amazing song done by an amazing singer. It was revived in 1989 when a DJ ran it in a "Where Are They Now?" kind of spot and it caught on a second time. The original in 1980 went as high as #11, and the rebirth in 1989 saw it go to #20. He had another great ballad a few years later titled How Could You Love Me, but but he was really a niche kind of artist that was never a major playa as far as top tier recognition and most people never heard of that second song. Felt a loss when he died in 2020.
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This is a song I have really loved the sound of. I like the groove, the instrumentation, and is emotional voice on this REALLY delivers in my opinion. I will say the lyrics (you may have been waiting for this comment) just don't sit well with me.
Quote
She's just 16 years old, leave her alone, they said
And of course it continues.
That being said he has tried to explain this away a good number of times. Personally, I just wasn't convinced. I think where I grapple with it is he does seem like a ok person from what I've seen. Maybe he didn't mean any of it in a bad way; yet that doesn't mean it wasn't inappropriate. I've even considered the times. Elvis/Pricilla, Jerry Lee Lewis/Myra Brown (big YIKES on this one) which were a little before obviously. Ultimately, he knows his intention, I don't. I have a tendency of taking people at their word until they prove me wrong. But, can I just say, it still feels uncomfortable? Even with it being a co-write.
Anyway, in case it's getting lost in all of this, I do still love hearing the song. His voice was incredible. I wouldn't turn it off if it came on and do have it on a few playlists. But I would be lying if that that age issue didn't also go through my mind as well.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
This is a song I have really loved the sound of. I like the groove, the instrumentation, and is emotional voice on this REALLY delivers in my opinion. I will say the lyrics (you may have been waiting for this comment) just don't sit well with me.
Quote
She's just 16 years old, leave her alone, they said
And of course it continues.
That being said he has tried to explain this away a good number of times. Personally, I just wasn't convinced. I think where I grapple with it is he does seem like a ok person from what I've seen. Maybe he didn't mean any of it in a bad way; yet that doesn't mean it wasn't inappropriate. I've even considered the times. Elvis/Pricilla, Jerry Lee Lewis/Myra Brown (big YIKES on this one) which were a little before obviously. Ultimately, he knows his intention, I don't. I have a tendency of taking people at their word until they prove me wrong. But, can I just say, it still feels uncomfortable? Even with it being a co-write.
Anyway, in case it's getting lost in all of this, I do still love hearing the song. His voice was incredible. I wouldn't turn it off if it came on and do have it on a few playlists. But I would be lying if that that age issue didn't also go through my mind as well.
Well the person singing it is not the person in the lyrics. Most of the time they tell a story and invent the "characters" of that story. Maybe he is 17 or 18 and still in high school and she is 16 also in high school. Who knows, I don't usually equate lyrics to the personality of the singer or even the song writer.
Ringo Starr and others" You're sixteen, You're beautiful and you're mine.
Written By the Sherman Brothers of Disney fame. None of them or anyone who sang it was even close to 16. Is it kind of creepy, yes, but is it wrong, well not really. As I say you can't really put the singer into the song as the protagonist although most people do.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
I know from the Showcase forum that most of you are way older than me, so this song might be a bit too modern for you guys. But there's a consensus that by far the best love song ever is THIS ONE!
Remember folks, the original question was "rock power ballad". I mean, showtunes ? JC Superstar wasn't exactly done by a rock band.
@HearToLearn: The one phrase DOES say you quoted, but also "Leave her alone they said..." Then the lyrics continue with "I would wait 'til the end of time for you", meaning in my mind "Damn. She's only 16 so I have to wait."
Just like how the libs put their spin to the phrase "What did you put in that drink" in "Baby It's Cold Outside" and got it banned from the radio, isn't it possible that the composers meant (IN 1944!!!) "I was expecting ginger ale. Did you put some whiskey in there too?" The feminists would add "You are trying to get her drunk so you can take advantage of her!"
Norwegian Wood: "I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me." Talking about promiscuous sex, are we?? Take it off the air!!
You could find something objectionable in most songs if you look for a phrase to take out of context and twist it enough ways to distort it to fit an agenda, agreed? I wonder what the feminazis would say about "I'm just a gigolo, and everywhere I go, people know the part I'm playing. Disgusting man taking advantage of lonely women with money! That's sexual harassment!" You're 16 was mentioned. That song takes of different perspective if the guy singing it is 16 or 46. And it was released in 1960. Remember when Tipper Gore and her evil lyric militia claimed to hear the words "Do it" in backward masking of a breath on a Judas Priest album and first made the allegation that "do it" meant "Kill yourself"? And that so influential was that band that some kid killed himself, apparently joining Tipper in her allegation of how to interpret "do it". (Amazing how the public turn into sheep when political bias is introduced into anything.)
But opinions are opinions and I respect yours!
Again, "rock power ballad". Like Meatloaf singing Diane Warren's "I'd Lie For You And That's The Truth." Rock bands doing ballads.
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Well the person singing it is not the person in the lyrics. Most of the time they tell a story and invent the "characters" of that story. Maybe he is 17 or 18 and still in high school and she is 16 also in high school. Who knows, I don't usually equate lyrics to the personality of the singer or even the song writer.
Ringo Starr and others" You're sixteen, You're beautiful and you're mine.
Written By the Sherman Brothers of Disney fame. None of them or anyone who sang it was even close to 16. Is it kind of creepy, yes, but is it wrong, well not really. As I say you can't really put the singer into the song as the protagonist although most people do.
Quote
@HearToLearn: The one phrase DOES say you quoted, but also "Leave her alone they said..." Then the lyrics continue with "I would wait 'til the end of time for you", meaning in my mind "Damn. She's only 16 so I have to wait."
Just like how the libs put their spin to the phrase "What did you put in that drink" in "Baby It's Cold Outside" and got it banned from the radio, isn't it possible that the composers meant (IN 1944!!!) "I was expecting ginger ale. Did you put some whiskey in there too?" The feminists would add "You are trying to get her drunk so you can take advantage of her!"
Norwegian Wood: "I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me." Talking about promiscuous sex, are we?? Take it off the air!!
You could find something objectionable in most songs if you look for a phrase to take out of context and twist it enough ways to distort it to fit an agenda, agreed? I wonder what the feminazis would say about "I'm just a gigolo, and everywhere I go, people know the part I'm playing. Disgusting man taking advantage of lonely women with money! That's sexual harassment!" You're 16 was mentioned. That song takes of different perspective if the guy singing it is 16 or 46. And it was released in 1960. Remember when Tipper Gore and her evil lyric militia claimed to hear the words "Do it" in backward masking of a breath on a Judas Priest album and first made the allegation that "do it" meant "Kill yourself"? And that so influential was that band that some kid killed himself, apparently joining Tipper in her allegation of how to interpret "do it". (Amazing how the public turn into sheep when political bias is introduced into anything.)
But opinions are opinions and I respect yours!
I understand the concept of being a character, or maybe this was someone thinking back to a time when they themselves were younger. But he was 33 when he wrote this. Ok, maybe still the character thing...but creepy. BUT that wasn't the case. I've heard him tell this story different ways, which is why I'm not sure what to think. One time someone else, the co-writer, made the comment that is the opening line. Another time, I heard it was just a comment he made to the co-writer. In both cases, it was a girl who was 16 who walked into the room they were in wearing a mini-skirt. One said something to the effect of "wow!" the other said the opening line. In either case, one had to tell they other one to leave her alone. In my opinion, pretty damn creepy.
BUT, what made me more uncomfortable, and I think is a bit more of an eye opener, is the video. He decided to play the part of the person who is pursuing this young girl. Again, he was 33 or maybe 34 in the video. The girl, I don't think was 16 but may have been, but she's playing the part of of the 16 year old. In his interviews, I've also heard him say that it was more about this poor girl he lived by that he just wished he could help. Ok, so maybe I'm still wrong. Believe me I wanted to be. But in the end of the video he starts making out with the girl. So...Pretty damning in my opinion.
In a later interview he said he felt the lyrics were inappropriate and ended up re-recording the song with her being, I believe, 21. But I could be wrong on the age. Something close to that though.
Still think the SOUND of the song is incredible. His vocal is crazy great.
Just my opinion. Not trying to be politically correct. I have 4 daughters, so take that with a grain of salt...in a shotgun. Seriously, I'm not trying to make it more than it is. Just saying what does bother me a bit though. As far as I know, none of it happened so, there ya go.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I know from the Showcase forum that most of you are way older than me, so this song might be a bit too modern for you guys. But there's a consensus that by far the best love song ever is THIS ONE!
FWIW - my guitarist friend, BobH, sang this to is bride at their wedding. Bob and I have played this many times.
I don't hear the Benny song as a power ballad...just a bad pop ballad. Perhaps a consensus on what constitutes a "power ballad" would help. I'm no help as I'm not a fan of power ballads in the 1st instances. Love songs aren't all power ballads while power ballads are love songs.
"Just like how the libs put their spin to the phrase..." Ah, there we have it. Lots of songs were about sexual conquest, lots of songs were about child women. Lots of people now understand that those things are, to put it mildly, objectionable. Lots of those songs are still fab songs because I, for one, can accept context and culture but there are exceptions. Lots of people say "libs" without really knowing what it means, not wanting to put too tight a label on it which would limit its usefulness as a blunt object. Woke folk are folk who woke up and recognize things in original and modern contexts. It's another term that has had a definition blunted by its repurposing as a weapon. Awareness began A LONG TIME AGO when folk started treating each other rather better, with less racial, cultural, class and economic abuse/disdain/humiliation etc. It was revived in the mid 70s...
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
Perhaps a consensus on what constitutes a "power ballad" would help.
Key point. Apparently some folks don't know what I meant or what the term means.
Bon Jovi "I'll Be There For You" Meatloaf "I Would Do Anything For Love", "I'd Lie For You And That's The Truth", and usually 2 per album because that's what Steinman wrote for him. Def Leppard "Love Bites"
I didn't say "ballads." I said "ROCK ballads." Rock bands doing ballads, not Andrew Lloyd Webber scores of Broadway musicals.
Consider when Meatloaf did the Jim Steinman penned "Read 'Em And Weep." Before Barry Manilow's sequins laden "Vegas-ed" version turned into a total wuss-fest. Meatloaf's original had testosterone. Manilow's cover had estrogen.
That's what the post was about. Driving, distorted guitars and loud drums.
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To me one of the best timeless power ballad is "If" by the band Bread. It's beautifully done in so many different ways. It has such a gentle delivery that it would be hard to think this wouldn't be the number one power ballad of all time!
Now I have to wonder if you thought I was serious? Ok, some real contenders? There are SO many from that time.
Heaven - Bryan Adams. Angle eyes - Steelheart Close My Eyes Forever" - Lita Ford And Ozzy I remember you - Skid Row Faithfully - Journey (Although I think Why Can't this Night Go On Forever" is even stronger. Love the ending vocals) Fly to the Angels - Slaughter Winds of Change - Scorpions Don't know what you got - Cinderella Alone - Heart High Enough - Damn Yankess
Just naming a few. As I said, there are many great power ballads from that era. I was lucky enough to grow up in it. Pick a band, go to track 4 and there it is.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 11/14/2312:13 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
Well the person singing it is not the person in the lyrics. Most of the time they tell a story and invent the "characters" of that story. Maybe he is 17 or 18 and still in high school and she is 16 also in high school. Who knows, I don't usually equate lyrics to the personality of the singer or even the song writer.
Ringo Starr and others" You're sixteen, You're beautiful and you're mine.
Written By the Sherman Brothers of Disney fame. None of them or anyone who sang it was even close to 16. Is it kind of creepy, yes, but is it wrong, well not really. As I say you can't really put the singer into the song as the protagonist although most people do.
Quote
@HearToLearn: The one phrase DOES say you quoted, but also "Leave her alone they said..." Then the lyrics continue with "I would wait 'til the end of time for you", meaning in my mind "Damn. She's only 16 so I have to wait."
Just like how the libs put their spin to the phrase "What did you put in that drink" in "Baby It's Cold Outside" and got it banned from the radio, isn't it possible that the composers meant (IN 1944!!!) "I was expecting ginger ale. Did you put some whiskey in there too?" The feminists would add "You are trying to get her drunk so you can take advantage of her!"
Norwegian Wood: "I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me." Talking about promiscuous sex, are we?? Take it off the air!!
You could find something objectionable in most songs if you look for a phrase to take out of context and twist it enough ways to distort it to fit an agenda, agreed? I wonder what the feminazis would say about "I'm just a gigolo, and everywhere I go, people know the part I'm playing. Disgusting man taking advantage of lonely women with money! That's sexual harassment!" You're 16 was mentioned. That song takes of different perspective if the guy singing it is 16 or 46. And it was released in 1960. Remember when Tipper Gore and her evil lyric militia claimed to hear the words "Do it" in backward masking of a breath on a Judas Priest album and first made the allegation that "do it" meant "Kill yourself"? And that so influential was that band that some kid killed himself, apparently joining Tipper in her allegation of how to interpret "do it". (Amazing how the public turn into sheep when political bias is introduced into anything.)
But opinions are opinions and I respect yours!
I understand the concept of being a character, or maybe this was someone thinking back to a time when they themselves were younger. But he was 33 when he wrote this. Ok, maybe still the character thing...but creepy. BUT that wasn't the case. I've heard him tell this story different ways, which is why I'm not sure what to think. One time someone else, the co-writer, made the comment that is the opening line. Another time, I heard it was just a comment he made to the co-writer. In both cases, it was a girl who was 16 who walked into the room they were in wearing a mini-skirt. One said something to the effect of "wow!" the other said the opening line. In either case, one had to tell they other one to leave her alone. In my opinion, pretty damn creepy.
BUT, what made me more uncomfortable, and I think is a bit more of an eye opener, is the video. He decided to play the part of the person who is pursuing this young girl. Again, he was 33 or maybe 34 in the video. The girl, I don't think was 16 but may have been, but she's playing the part of of the 16 year old. In his interviews, I've also heard him say that it was more about this poor girl he lived by that he just wished he could help. Ok, so maybe I'm still wrong. Believe me I wanted to be. But in the end of the video he starts making out with the girl. So...Pretty damning in my opinion.
In a later interview he said he felt the lyrics were inappropriate and ended up re-recording the song with her being, I believe, 21. But I could be wrong on the age. Something close to that though.
Still think the SOUND of the song is incredible. His vocal is crazy great.
Just my opinion. Not trying to be politically correct. I have 4 daughters, so take that with a grain of salt...in a shotgun. Seriously, I'm not trying to make it more than it is. Just saying what does bother me a bit though. As far as I know, none of it happened so, there ya go.
I am certainly no prude and there are some creepy songs out there. My wife and I have a category of songs we call stalker songs. There is someone, walking behind you, turn around, look its me. I mean really.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
I am certainly no prude and there are some creepy songs out there. My wife and I have a category of songs we call stalker songs. There is someone, walking behind you, turn around, look its me. I mean really.
Is "Every Breath You Take" in there? THAT was literally a stalking song.
On a similar but dissimilar topic, did you ever listen to the lyrics in Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats" closely? I was working with a band fronted by a girl who wanted to do that song. I refused to be part of it because it praises the act of domestic violence of the character ruining a guy's car with a baseball bat because he cheated. The way you handle cheating is leaving the situation, not violence. The debate got heated, and I ended up leaving the band before I would be part of promoting domestic violence by playing that song. Those lyrics don't just tell the story, they actually validate the act. I am not going to send a message like that. I will also never be part of performing "Cocaine". I also used to leave the stage when an old band of mine did that "Rodeo Song" that said "It's 40 below and I don't give a **** got a heater in my truck and I'm off to the rodeo". I will not use that kind of profanity on stage. That song was an affront to my musical integrity. A band should never have to pander to the lowest common denominator of the audience that way. I will also never play anything by Michael Jackson, again because I won't pay homage to someone of such questionable character.
Back to topic, Chad, good list. From one generation younger than mine, but a good list. Sometimes I am happy to be old, sometimes not so much.
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Just like how the libs put their spin to the phrase "What did you put in that drink" in "Baby It's Cold Outside" and got it banned from the radio, isn't it possible that the composers meant (IN 1944!!!) "I was expecting ginger ale. Did you put some whiskey in there too?" The feminists would add "You are trying to get her drunk so you can take advantage of her!"
I don't think it was the libs who put their spin on the phrase "What did you put in that drink" - it was the people who drugged and raped people.
That's the kind of thing that can take the fun out of anything.
The writers certainly did not mean ginger ale. That's why she sings "just half a drink more":
But maybe just a half a drink more I'll put some records on while I pour
The singer is saying the drink is stronger than she expected, and that she find that suddenly she's "in some crazy spell", but finds she can't seem to say "no, no, no" like she knows she should:
Say what's in this drink? I seem to be in Some crazy spell I ought to say "No, no, no sir" At least I'm gonna say that I tried
Now, I think this is a really well written lyric. The phrase "crazy spell" makes it clear that it's not the alcohol that's what's making her feel that way. And her reluctance to leave is made even more clear by "At least I'm gonna say that I tried".
Still, it's enough to make me a uncomfortable, because it's awfully close to something that isn't funny.
I'm reminded of a co-worker used to work in an institution. He couldn't stand to watch pratfalls and other sorts of physical comedy, because the real damage this would cause was all too real to him.
Similarly, the song is intended as a playful back-and-forth, but time changes how we respond to someone who won't take "No" for an answer.
I simply must go (Baby, it's cold outside) The answer is, "No" (But, baby, it's cold outside) Your welcome has been (So lucky that you dropped in) So nice and warm
I'd say that what that means now is different than what it means then. But for some people, it was never different.
The song was eventually used in the film "Neptune's Daughter" - twice. When the song is used a second time, the genders of the singers are swapped, and the female singer is much more aggressive, eventually pinning the guy on the couch. Of course, it's played for laughs, but had it been the other way around it wouldn't have been acceptable - even in the 1940s:
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Seriously, I'm not trying to make it more than it is. Just saying what does bother me a bit though. As far as I know, none of it happened so, there ya go.
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